Heel Height and Position
by coachdanbell
New lifters and CrossFitters are often frustrated by their bottom positions in cleans, squats, and especially the snatch. They see pictures of national or world class weightlifters and wonder why they can’t hit positions like this:
Through discussions with those familiar with the Chinese program and my own observations, it is clear the Chinese coaches emphasize position before all else. Lu Xiaojun’s bottom position in this snatch is the result of many factors, some under the lifter’s control, some not. In the not column would be structure: femur length relative to torso and lower leg length. Most people, however, do not have a structure ideally suited to weightlifting. Their thighs (femurs) are too long in relation to their lower legs and/or torsos. When sitting in a full squat with proper back position, their torso angle is leaned too far forward from vertical.
This can place a lot of stress on the shoulders and low back, especially in the snatch. The standard pieces of advice to address this problem work well: increase ankle, knee, and hip mobility and buy weightlifting shoes. The raised heels of weightlifting shoes allow the knees to travel farther forward over the front of the foot, allowing the hips to be closer to the heels, thus bringing the torso angle more towards the vertical. Just doing these things is effective for most, but there are people with very long femurs who still cannot hit ideal or close to ideal positions, even implementing the usual advice to the best of their ability. What to do, then?
Here is a good, standard weightlifting shoe:
Note the elevated heel, usually between a half to one inch high. That works well for many people, but not all. Even elite level athletes with all of the other qualities a coach would look for in a lifter–speed, agility, flexibility–may not have a structure that allows the positions that would result in maximizing the lifter’s talent.
My lifter Kat Lee, a former Division 1 pole vaulter, has all the qualities a coach could ask for in a weightlifter save one: that long femur thing. Here is her snatch bottom position even with good weightlifting shoes. (Note her back angle)
The heel in the shoes has helped her get to this position, but still not as good as I’d like. She works ankle and hip mobility almost every day. There is not much more she can get out of that. If a raised heel can get Kat better position, but not great, then why not more heel? That is exactly what you see the Chinese do with their lifters. If you look very closely at the Xiaojun pic above, you’ll see the heels on his Nike’s have been raised what appears to be at least 1/4″ or more. That doesn’t seem like much, but even with his ideal structure, either he or his coaches thought it could be a bit better.
So we took Kat’s shoes to a local cobbler. The result:
Kat is a more extreme example. We added 1/2″ of hard cobbler’s crepe and a 1/4″ of sheet sole to her heel (tapered down to just behind the ball of the foot) for a total additional heel height of 3/4″. Here is the position she can hit with her modified shoes:
This is a pretty radical change, but the improvement in her bottom position will be worth it in weightlifting results and injury prevention. It is imperative that when adding any heel height that you work back to your best training weights slowly. Drop down to 80% or less and work back up over two to six weeks, gradually growing accustomed to the new positions and feeling. This will help prevent tendonitis or more traumatic injury from using heavy weight before adjusting to the shoes.
You don’t have to modify your $200 weightlifting shoes just to find out if it will work for you. Simply place wood or metal change plates of different thicknesses under your heels and test out your bottom position for a snatch or front squat. See how it feels and have someone check you out from the side for a more vertical torso angle. If you’re serious about results and injury prevention, it may well be worth the $50 or so it costs to modify your shoes.
Personally.. I am a 6′ tall lifter with long femurs and I have a difficult time getting my hips over my ankles.
The only solution that works is a wider stance, spreading the knees out very far (use chad vaughn as a reference) and increasing my hip flexibility to drive the hips over the ankles.
IF* you keep a narrow stance, then a higher heel elevation is required. In my coaching experience, the majority of new lifters have too narrow of a squat stance.
Ryan, you are right that too many lifters have too narrow a stance in the bottom, especially in the snatch. But there are still lifters who can benefit from more heel. It is common in Chinese and European lifters.
agreed!! =)
I just used a moderate insert inside my shoes as a heel lift – it has worked fine for years now (maybe 3/16″) . If I was serious (read as “any good”) I would go the permanent sole lift you did here. You couldn’t do 3/4″ this way of course or your heel would be almost out of the shoe. Hell lifts are better as an experiment than plates under the hell I think as a test – you can move in them – hard to do on plates.
Great write up Dan. I had no idea how to go about raising the heel on my Adipowers. I experimented with heel lift inserts, but wasn’t really all that happy with them as a long-term solution. Long femurs truly are a curse.
Craid,
Most cobblers can do this. It’s just hard black crepe (1/2″) glued to the original sole, then a 1/4″ of sheet rubber sole glued to that. It’s all tapered to just behind the ball of the foot. But you don’t even have to taper it that far. It can just be built up like a regular heel and only tapered the length of the new heel.
Is there a reason why Kat chose to taper it to the ball of the foot? Just curious btw. Thanks for the quick reply!
Craig,
Not TO the ball of the foot, just behind. It was the cobbler’s choice. he saw that the shoe’s sole was completely flat to begin with, so he duplicated that in the finished product. It has no effect one way or the other on how the shoe feels or performs.
Cool article Dan! Have you had any experience with going down in heel height? I have been thinking that a lifter who is able to get into the position of photo 2 with a lower heel should use it (ala Kakhi)? Easier off the floor, more surface area for the base of support, etc. I have also noticed too much of a heel can compromise the front rack position. Su Dajin rarely catches the bounce well and it almost always looks like the bar will fall off his clavicles.
This article reminds me that I need to get back into the habit of wearing my WL shoes. I’m 6’4″ and have one hell of a time doing any movements that put me into a squat position with good form. I’m no professional by any stretch of the imagination, but I may as well be doing it right if I’m going to do it at all. Also, I did find that widening my stance does help me.
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Hi, will you please say more about how beginners have too narrow a stance? First, why is a narrow stance undesirable? Second, why are beginners more likely to adopt one? Third, what if a wider stance is limited by flexibility? do you know any stretches specifically for widerning the squat?
thanks coach!
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This article came at a great time for me….18 months of trying to work the squat and hitting a wall. My new shoes will arrive soon and I would like to have the heel altered. Is it possible to be put in contact with the cobbler that was used in your area?
I can do that, but really any decent cobbler anywhere can do this. Just show them the pics of the modified shoes and the description of the materials in the article and I’m sure they can do it. If not, I’ll find the name and post it.
Would you happen to have a recommendation for how to find out about weightlifting shoe heel heights compared to each other? I did all the research I could before ordering my Crossfit Reebok’s, and now that they’re here…. I still can’t get into a good position. =(
I’ve been eying the Again Faster oly lifter which has a heel height of 1 1/4″ as opposed to Reebok’s 3/4″… and they’re cheaper… but the reviews (the ONE review that I could find!) is pretty lackluster.
Same with the VS Athletics shoe. Cheaper, but lackluster reviews.
I’m not sure how high the Nikes or Addipowers are, but they seem the highest on the market right now. You can add heel to the Reebok shoes, but it might be harder than the others.
C,
The effective heel is what you need to pay attention to. The AF shoes have a heel height of 1.25″, but the effective heel is 0.90″. The Romaleos and Adipowers have effective heel heights of 0.75″, with the Adidas Powerlifts and Power Perfect II’s coming in at 0.65″. I’ve used all of the shoes but the PPII’s. I also have a pair of VS Athletics, but I don’t care for them.
Risto sports will manufacture a shoe to a custom heel height, if that’s what you’re after.
I took my Adipowers to a local cobbler who used a material for heels as it didn’t compress like the cobbler’s crepe he had. He was able to peel back the Adidas sole, add the heel height, taper it and reapply the original sole. He did a phenomenal job.
I’m a 6’3 lifter with long femurs, my bottom position looks very similar to your lifters first position, with a significant amount of forward lean. I’m thinking of getting another 1/2-3/4″ on my Romaleos.
Has anyone had durability issues with modifying their oly shoes? As in the heels coming off? Are the soles nailed or just glued?
I much like the look of the full length taper, and would like to keep the original sole of the romaleo on if possible, as it grips very well. Anyone done this to a romaleo?
Kat has had not problems with the additional heel and durability. The new heel material is glued right over the original sole, not nails, and seems to have the same grip as the original. I’m sure a good cobbler can peel back the original sole, apply the hard crepe and taper it, then lay the original sole on top of that. You’d be surprised what someone who does these things every day for years can do.
I took my romaleos in today and showed the cobbler the pictures. He said it shouldn’t be a problem and that it would be quite easy to do. I went with another 1/2″ of heel after doing some tests with boards of varying thickness, which should bring the heels up to 1.25″. My shoe size is 14, I don’t know how they can expect such big guys to get away with the same heel lift as a short lifter with a size 9-10. I noticed the older guys in my club are all still wearing the Do Wins with 1.5″ of heel and their squats are always bang on.
Thanks for this awesome article. Hopefully this fixes my issue. I was hesitant to modify my expensive shoes, but this sealed the deal.
Happy to help!
Hi Sledge762,
I am in exactly the same situation as you, I’m also 6’3 and I just got the Romaleos yesterday, I tried them on, and could not get down in position like I wanted to.
How did the modification work out for you? I’m planning to head out to my local cobbler in a few hours.
And thanks Coach Dan for the article :D!
Ah I just saw your follow up down in the comments, great to hear they worked out for you!
Ive squatted for 5 days in my modified Romaleos, I could not be happier. My squats are significantly better and I can finally feel my quads doing their share of the work. I’ve hit a new pr 3RM already. The cobbler went with 5/8″ of raise and my squats have never looked or felt better.
Thank you so much for this article.
[…] Top US Weightlifting coach Dan Bell has written an article relating with this subject which you can read more here. […]
A question…. or two… maybe three. Obviously wearing weightlifting shoes for weightlifting is the way to go. With this being said, does it inhibit gaining flexibility in the ankle or other underlying areas of tightness? Is it a Band aid for flexibility? I’ve recently researched a lot of Chinese weightlifting methodology and am curious as where do you think the majority of their weight is being displaced on the foot? in order for me to achieve this position (knees over toes, upright torso) I simply squat down on the balls of my feet. My heels are off the ground, but damn it feels good. No back pain no knee pain, very unrestricted. It appears very middle eastern. At light weights do you think squatting in this manner can help teach torso position as well improve flexibility (meaning a focus on the Forefoot). I know we have always heard don’t squat with your Forefoot because it is bad for the knees. I know with shoes especially at the height you had them adjusted to, you can still sit back on the heels. But if you really look at it its putting you in position of squatting on the ball of your foot. Looking for your opinion. Thanks in advance.
First, changing the heel height of your shoes in no way precludes working on ankle mobility. We work ankle mobility first and change heel height only when that is not getting the position desired. Second, pressure in the foot is a matter of conscious choice, whatever the height of the heel. The lifter simply rocks at the ankle to change that pressure. The pressure should be mid-foot, not the heels or the ball of the feet, right in the middle. You mentioned studying how the Chinese do things. They strive to keep the torso as upright as possible when they squat and keep the pressure mid-foot throughout the movement. (I guess you call that the “Middle Way”)
Kat Lee took longer than usual to adjust to the radical change in heel height, but it has done wonders for her positions in the lifts and squats. She’s all the way back to her original lifts and hitting PRs again.
Dear Coach Bell,
Thank you very much for making this post including the pictures and instructions regarding the heel construction for the cobbler. I have reduced flexibility on one ankle due to some screws and I thanks to your blog advice i had another 3/4″ added to my lifting shoes. My form in front and back squats looks so much better and now I actually feel like the correct muscles are being engaged. Thank you again. Cheers.
This is a great article! I have been searching the net for several weeks now trying to find a solution to increase heel height due to my ankle mobility restrictions (bone spurs, scar tissue, etc). Thanks so much for posting this!
My question is how do I determine HOW MUCH to increase the heel? I already have Adidas Powerlifts — can a cobbler modify the attachment once he’s already added a new heel?
thanks!
Jonathan
Try overhead squats with a 1/2kg plate under your heel. If that’s not enough, try 1kg, and so on. Three quarters of an inch is a lot, and many people won’t need that much, but you can determine what you need this way. I’ve seen some world class Chinese lifters with an inch or more added to their heels.
Thanks for the quick reply! One more thought–I heard that increasing heel height can affect the jerk because it creates “forward lean”. Is this true?
It will take a little while to adjust, but it’s not too big a problem. Kat raised her heels 3/4″ and it did take her a couple months to adjust in her jerk, but it came around. Just pay CLOSE attention to where the pressure is in your heels as you dip for the jerk drive.
I dont think the chinese lefter has added heel, check out nike romaleos, thats how mine look as well… Its from the factory like that. Thats just what it seems like to me. And wow how tall is your athlete where she needs that tall of a heel, its like a high heel shoes.. Lol
It was a poorly chosen picture, but the Chinese have a number of lifters with significant heel added to their shoes to get into the right position. If you can’t hit the positions, you can’t lift.
[…] *Top US Weightlifting coach Dan Bell has written an article relating with this subject which you can read more here. […]
I did crossfit for a little over a year and left to train at a gym focusing mainly on oly lifts. I must have freakishly long femurs. I had purchased the adipowers and took them to a cobbler and added a 1/2″. Then to really get in a good overhead position (similar to Kats position in that second picture with her modified shoes) I added ANOTHER 3/4″ in the heel under the cushion. Similar to Kat, my thoracic, hip, and ankle mobility is pretty good. I am uncertain whether that much lift is going to be a bad thing? I feel super comfortable in that position though.
If it works and is comfortable, then no problem. I’ve seen Chinese lifters with an inch-and-a-half under their heels. As long as you can fight the pressure in your feet sliding too far forward and can keep even pressure across your feet from front to back, sounds like it works well.
I just wanted to let you know that I appreciated this post very much. I had my shoes altered based on this article, and my red adipowers now look very much like Kat’s. I actually showed the cobbler the before and after pictures here. I don’t think the new effective heel height is quite as high, but it has been a great improvement and I am sure that it will be a decision that I will not regret.
Thanks Dan!
First off awesome article. I’m a 6’1 tall goon and squatting hasn’t been my strong suit and I won’t even get into how horrible my overhead position is. I work mobility every day and have noticed improvement but nothing as significant as when I started add plates under my adipowers after reading this article. I found a 1/2 inch of plywood laying around the house and used that has a raise and HOLY COW! My torso had never been more upright. Even my grip in my overhead squat became more narrow which felt 100 times better on my shoulders. I’m glad I stumbled upon your article and have been looking for local shoe cobblers but I wanted to know specifically which shop you went too. Any info would be great.
Thanks Dan
I went to North Canton Shoe Service, in North Canton, Ohio. They’ve done a few pairs of shoes for my lifters. But I’m sure any competent cobbler can do the job. Just make sure they use hard crepe under the new sole if going up more than 1/4″, and on Adipowers or any full sole weightlifting shoe, have them taper it out just behind the ball of the foot.
I have long femurs and a short torso, and combined with non-Vaughn hip and ankle flexibility, taller heels looked like a great idea to me. I didn’t want to pay anyone, though. I essentially elevated the heels myself by screwing a hockey puck to the wooden heels of my Do-Wins. If you’re interested:
My DIY project:
If you click on my username and go to my web page, it shows the photos of the project and the result! Good luck, don’t destroy your expensive shoes.
-Alan
Hey do you prefer a midway heel height like 15mm or something higher? Does too high cause knee issues?
It depends on the lifters ankle and hamstring flexibility, and femur length relative to the lower leg, but a mid-height heel works for most. I haven’t seen any issues with adding even as much as 3/4″ of heel height. Knee issues can become a problem if the lifter lets the center of balance move too far forward in the feet, too often. If the lifter keeps the balance over the mid-foot, no problems at all.
Great – thankyou!
Very interesting article. I am working out with trainer Nikolai Ge here in Kazakhstan and he wants me to increase the height of my heels for better balance in the Snatch. Now I know what he means.
Happy I could help.
Your blog came in handy when I went to the cobbler yesterday. I showed him the picture and he raised nearly identical to yours. I am glad I had my Adidas Adipower here with me. For me, it cost under $11 USD. I will get my Romaleos 2 done later this week.
My blog write up is here: http://saigonnezumi.com/2015/09/27/increased-heel-height-on-my-weightlifting-shoes/
I will update my blog after my training session with Coach Nikolai Ge on Tuesday.
Thanks for this post again.
Kevin
[…] Snatch. I was not sure what he meant until I found this article online by Coach Dan Bell, Heel Height and Position – Coach Dan Bell. I showed Coach Nikolai and he said that is what he wanted me to […]
An amazing article which was so informative. I took my adidas power lifts 2.0 to my local cobbler (rob) and he added 0.3 inches to the existing 0.6 inches. Giving a total of 0.9. I feel like a beast in my snatch. Who knows. I might get real snatches with my snatch :p
Youtube for “Adidas power lifts 2.0 customized”
Of everything I have written about lifting over the years, this seems to be the most read article. The raised heels have helped many, many lifters. I’m so happy it helped you, Cam.
Hello coach. I’ve long femurs but also short torso,so for me in the start position is very difficult to be over or little in front of the bar,resulting many time in being behind the bar with my shoulders.if an extra heel is a benefit for my body type because it allow a more vertical torso position in the receiving position or in the squat, i’m afraid that this more upright position can lead to an even worse starting position causing the shoulders to be even more back than my normal position.what do you think about?sorry for my english..
As long as you are in good position as the bar reaches the knee level, your start doesn’t matter that much. Some people find success starting with the shoulders behind the bar, some over, some in front. It is vital, however, that your shins be near vertical and the bar close to you as the bar passes the knees. Find whatever start position allows you to get to the end of the first pull in good position.
Thanks for the post.Coach do you think that change the elevation of the heel can change also the starting position of the lifter? I’ll try to explain better the question; I’ve got long femur and like many other with long femur i’ve also a short torso. due to this my main problem is that in the starting position i find difficulties in setting the shoulder over or slightly in front of the bar finishing most of the times in being behind the bar with the shoulders. My question is then this: while with an extra elevation of the heel in the squat i can find an improvement(and i’ve alredy experienced this when i have elevated my oly shoes with some plates)can this elevation be a disadvantage for my body type for the start position?
[…] https://coachdanbell.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/heel-height-and-position/ […]
[…] Height – The standard heel height for men’s weightlifting shoes is ¾ inches, but there are both lower and higher heels available. […]
There are NOW, but when I wrote this, no manufacturer seemed to give much thought to heel height beyond the standard of the industry.
I noticed that the added heel height give me a stable bottom position, (no buttwink) but the negative part is that i get more weight on the toes when i pull, squat and do the dip in the jerk, Like im disconnecting my glutes and go in to posterior pelvic tilt. Seen this with the increas of heel height?
Yes, I’ve seen this. There is an adjustment period of one to three months, and in rare cases, longer. You’ll have to make a conscious effort to stay mid-foot in your squats, and shift back in your feet in the first pull.
Hello. I broke my leg about 10 months ago unfortunately, and still haven’t been able to restore my dorsiflexion even after full rehab. I previosly had exceptional mobility. However, at the moment, I’m unable to go below 1/3 without significant pain on the front of my ankle and heel rising off the ground. What do you think of inserting a lift inside the shoes? https://www.amazon.com/squatLIFTS-wodLIFTS-Height-Increase-Perform/dp/B07CGB7DSJ/ref=pd_ybh_a_7?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=9E54V16ZZNGNR31WQXKZ is what I’m considering. If there isn’t a drastic difference, i want to try this over the cobbler custumization since this is easier to add/remove, and not put me at the mercy of the competency/understanding of the cobbler.
Thank you.
The only problem with the inserts is pulling your heel too far out of your shoe. This would especially show up in the back foot in your split jerk. Most cobblers can handle a heel elevation. Just show them a picture of what you want, make sure they use the hard crepe, not the soft, and taper it out to just behind the ball of the foot.
Thank you for your insight sir
[…] also found this great resource to learn more about the effect of heel height of weightlifting shoes on your […]